For anyone who didn't listen, the closest we got to Lee was John Barrowman and Michael Ball!!! - oh and David Essex singing "Gonna Make You A Star". Elaine's guest talking about his "essential musicals" was Tim Flavin - who at around 1hr 10mins in gave his opinion about "reality" show performers becoming celebrities overnight, saying he thinks some shows have been compromised due to reality stars performing. I emailed EP and asked her to ask him which shows in particular was he talking about, but of course the question wasn't asked. I'm sure many of us from Lee's fansites emailed in to ask EP to play something by Lee, but it wasn't to be. I even tried to "butter her up" by in one email telling her I had seen her fabulous performance at PiP!! I did hear EP being interviewed on BBC Breakfast a month or so ago, and she seemed to have the same opinion as Tim Flavin - saying you can't learn in a few weeks what takes years to perfect, especially doing 8 shows a week! However, she said Jodie Prenger would be on her Show in May and would be singing as well. I Wonder what she will say to her about it. Also wonder why she never chose to play anything by Lee!! BTW can't stand her giggling like a schoolgirl!! It's on BBCiplayer for those who want to listen.

Thanks for that Brenda. I think EP's off my Christmas card list now - I find her very irritating.

Well, they have a point, but it makes no sense to lump Lee in with the others, who is the only one of the three winners so far to have had exactly the experience (drama school & touring/WE shows for several years) they're saying a lead should have, DUH! He's paid his dues and that's why the Joseph company welcomed him with open arms.

Even Connie was trained at a prestigious drama school and had years performing on stage as an amateur.

I can see where Jodie and Gareth would not meet their approval, since both of them lacked acting training and experience treading the boards.

Of course, they may not have any idea of Lee's background while making these sweeping generalizations.

Whilst I do have immense respect for Ms Paige - she does keep harking on about these reality tv winners coming into MT. Why on earth should it matter? - Yes I agree you need to perfect your art and do the apprenticeship but if you have talent you have talent end of!! She is very much up her own derriere that woman and a complete snob!

I saw my friends son perform in Oklahoma for his school production a few weeks ago - he is 17 and is a very talented lad with masses of potential. If were spotted now and put into a role it would be tough for him but he would learn his art on the job. Its not like the apprenticeship needed for say an electrician or a trade where safety and knowledge is important for the career. Like I say if you have talent its just there! Id love to see what you all think of my friends son Harry - I have a you tube clip of him playing Curly Maclaine. Do you think I could post it on here?

Surely everyone has to start somewhere & be discovered somehow. It has happened that complete unknowns have been cast long before reality TV came to our screens.

I think there ARE serious safety and health concerns for novice performers. Going into a show with a 6 to 8 show a week grind (or 10 for touring productions) with a big sing type of role can do terrible damage to the vocal cords.

Connie was trained and still suffered a vocal injury during her SOM run. She shouldn't have been doing 8 shows a week, it would have been too hard for someone more experienced.

Steve Balsamo was cast in JCS with only minimal prior stage experience but had been singing for a few years prior and went on to great acclaim in the role. (Sadly, he's pursuing a music career rather than more stage work these days.)

Stage performers have to have the physical endurance and stamina of a professional athlete and that's the kind of thing that needs to be built up over time. No matter how young and energetic you are, stamina needs to be developed. It's not the same thing to do a high school musical for a week or two. Kids especially are not going to be aware of the physical/emotional demands for a long-running show and may not have the discipline to take care of themselves properly week after week, month after month.

Frankly, if any of the younger Joes had won ADWD, it would have been a disaster, for the show as well as their career.

SmittenbyLee, please post the Youtube clip of your "Curly" -- would love to see it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDpo_haw-zc

I cant believe Harry is only 17 - I remember him as a babe in arms and used to look after him for my friend! (he is the tall blonde one in the hat btw)
I take your point PKP re the voice - Harrys is so mature in sound but not in age. He needs to nuture it for sure. I welled up when he walked on stage, I just didnt know how good he,d become! Thanks for listening

Oh SBL, I've just watched this, it was (he was!!) fabulous - can't believe he is only 17 and that it was a school production - all the voices sounded much more mature than that. We'll have to keep an eye out for his name - thanks for posting this.

I was listening to EP last Sunday, and couldn't believe that she'd ignored all the e-mails about playing something by Lee. He is a WE superstar! She has always been snotty about him,- I think it's jealousy! When she does that cackling that passes for laughter, she sounds like a demnted gerbil!

On a happier note:
SBL,- thank you for the YouTube link. Your Harry has a wonderful voice. We'll have to watch out for him in the future. You have every reason to be proud!

Lee's always been the thorny spot in that debate when it comes up. Somewhere along the line, someone points him out and they will usually back track for Lee. Elaine's had him on her show in the past and I don't think she lumps him in with the "instant talent" show winners.

They're moreso refering to the folks like on Idol and the like who get some noteriety and are suddenly headling a show, when there had all these wonderfully talented people in the chorus who've been honing their talent for years (like Lee) who don't get that sort of opportunity and have to carry the show.

It's a toss up, though because on the other side of the arguement is you have a Name people recognize bringing in folks to see the show and filling up the seats, there-by keeping the show open longer and folks get paid that much longer (like Lee).

I think it was in that Broadway World interview where someone asked a question about how he'd be percieved and he wasn't sure if they were asking about his having so much prior experience before enterining ADWD or if it was because he was a contest winner going into a headliner role. What does he do? Talk up his experience or talk it down?

Lee's one of the very rare cases where the system actually worked right. Take Lee out of the equation, and how do you feel about the issue?

I listened too with growing annoyance. Elaine Paige has never got over the fact that the musical she opened in at about the same time as Lee opened in Joseph, closed very quickly and she never misses an opportunity to complain about reality theatre stars. While I can see her point in many cases, how did Jason Donavan get into the theatre - via Neighbours of course.If they do a bad job then by all means criticise but otherwise she should not be so hypocritical. How about all the people who get their chance because they are related to someone already famous?
I have seen Tim Flavin in shows and he has been excellent but it seemed like sour grapes to me. I can't see how EP can be all smiles and friendly when these reality stars appear on her show. It seems very 2-faced to me. Actually the programme was really disappointing. When she did the female stars she had variety and didn't have a guest. Tim Flavin was so full of himself I was really irritated. The giggling annoys me too. Unfortunately some idiot fans encourage her to do it.

I think the TV casting process can have a downside, in that you do get people with no previous experience and/or training being brought into the mix. There's also the fact that the need for (or benefit of) training isn't emphasised - hence you have people who could really benefit from training refusing it, or not even considering it, and instead going straight into looking for work once their casting series ends.

Having said that, I think the casting shows thus far have worked. Connie and Lee are great, and were very successful in their 'winning' roles. Jodie seems to be doing well. It remains to be seen what the future holds for them, but the TV casting process does seem to be more about the participants getting sustainable careers than turning them into 'Famous for 15 minutes' flashes in the pan.

I do think that, unfortunately, there is a tendency amongst certain people (EP) to make sweeping judgements about the contestants on TV casting shows, namely that everyone who appears is a) inexperienced and b) fame hungry wannabees! If you look at the contestants, you'd see that the opposite is true. To take a few examples:-

Connie - Studied at Mountview (very pretigious Performing Arts establishment)!
Helena (who was runner-up to Connie), worked in various touring productions and for Disney!
Abi and Aoife - Both were nearly at the end of degree courses in performing arts, which they completed after HDYSAPLM!
Lee - Did a college course in performing arts, appeared in a variety of touring productions, was understudy in the WE production of 'Phantom'!
Daniel - Studied performing arts at a prestigious establishment, appeared in a variety of touring productions!
Rachel - was in the West End production of 'Tonight's The Night' (with fellow IDA contestant Francesca, who was also in 'Rent').
Sarah - Appeared in a variety of touring productions.

Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

When Lee was interviewed for EP's radio show, she herself did not do the interview. It was pre-recorded and had another presenter (sorry, don't know who it was, but I'm sure it's on the Timeline).

Whether EP (and other stage people) are lumping Lee in with the rest of the reality casting people or not, there's not much point in just griping about it. There is a very good reason for why this will continue (M-O-N-E-Y) and there's a very good way for this to work for the overall health of the theatreworld -- get more Equity-card holding performers to to do these shows and they will all benefit.

These shows have done bang up business for the West End and I think they are a better way to promote both specific shows and musicals in general. I feel that they are also better than the celebrity stunt-casting that so many shows have relied on for box-office.

Smitten, your Harry is a terrific! He's certainly got a lot going for him if he wants to continue in showbiz. Good luck to him!

I think the other thing that people often don't consider for novice performers is that showbiz is an extremely tough business. It's not at all like other careers and not everyone will have the temperament to withstand its ups & downs and be able to thrive let alone survive in it. All you have to do is look at the tabloids and magazines to see all the various train wrecks in progress!

It was Malcolm Prince (EP's producer?) who interviewed Lee and I have to say I've listened to it and enjoyed it far more than I would have if she'd been asking the questions!

I really enjoyed that interview as well, wonder why EP wasn't there - maybe she doesn't like Lee!!! Aw, no she must have been on holiday or ill, you just wouldn't miss talking to Lee and looking into those eyes, would you?

Thanks Brenda and everyone for your kind words about Harry. His surname is one not easiy to forget ..Thatcher!!!

EP claimed she was unable to interview Lee.
As for Jodie - we saw Oliver a few weeks ago and she was perfectly cast.

I thought she had interviewed him before, about a year or so ago? Possibly in print - Have to check the time line.

Too much information... it's starting to blurr... I must review... :)

I don't remember any interview with EP, but they did both appear at the ALW PiP concert.